Curse

Puebert · Aug 07, 2009, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Masochism was recently changed to be a Soul Reaping/Death Magic copy of Awaken the Blood. It used to read: "For 30 seconds, you gain 1...4 Energy whenever you sacrifice Health."

This skill was a staple skill for Orders and Bips, but now has a totally different purpose.

My suggestion is to revert this skill and give it's current functionality to a different skill. If necessary, move a Death Magic skill into Soul Reaping if Foul Feast and Hexer's Vigor are really important.

FoxBat · Aug 07, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

This change really does leave orders spam firmly in dervish hands. And yeah, there was plenty more trash skills they could've chose to rework.

Evasion Twenty · Aug 07, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

yes...i miss it badly >.<

Ugh · Aug 07, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Melandru's Shot was recently changed to be a mediorce skill similar to other ranger elites. It used to be an 8 second recharge.

This skill was a staple skill for rangers in PvP.

My suggestion is to revert this skill and buff other elites to give rangers more versitality. If necessary, give it a 10 second recharge.

On topic:
Not mocking you, btw; just QQing. There doesn't seem to be anyone in favor of the change to Masochism (If there are, I haven't seen them). And I don't play a necro, so I'm not very familiar with their skills/builds. But sure, I'll be fine with a change. This new version doesn't seem that useful.

majikmajikmajik · Aug 07, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

orders has been ran fine for years, what does this change? revert to pre eotn orders build..

subarucar · Aug 07, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This change really does leave orders spam firmly in dervish hands. And yeah, there was plenty more trash skills they could've chose to rework.

Dervish's got the wind prayers support skills they usually run nerfed aswell. I liked the old Maso, apart from orders it made for some fun and interesting builds, even if they were not effective. The new Maso is just another skill to throw on an MM.

Racthoh · Aug 07, 2009, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This change really does leave orders spam firmly in dervish hands. And yeah, there was plenty more trash skills they could've chose to rework.

Actually Vow of Piety was completely changed so it no longer fuels Orders that well anymore as well.

Arkantos · Aug 07, 2009, 06:01 AM // 06:01

They changed the function of a skill that wasn't broken and turned it into a skill that's not as useful as people want to think.

Yes, revert it.

Chthon · Aug 07, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

While I certainly miss the old Masochism, I'm also in love with the power on the new one. The bonus is pretty insane for a minion master. Ideally I'd like to see both skills co-existing (and I don't much care which one keeps the name Masochism).

king_trouble · Aug 07, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

would like it reverted also and while at it revert poison heart so I can use it to fuel my twin moon sweap

gameshoes3003 · Aug 07, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I missed it too.
/signed

Killamus · Aug 07, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I love this new one. It's a staple in any discord build.

duckboy · Aug 07, 2009, 08:50 AM // 08:50

i voted for no cos this new version imo is more useful. the old one was useless because necros have soul reaping which gave energy anyways, and as for dervish order builds, don't they get energy/hp from ending enchantments which orders spam all the time? why the need for more energy spells when ur getting free energy anyways. like majikmajikmajik said: orders has'nt died, u've just got to go back to older builds that worked just as good before.

Racthoh · Aug 07, 2009, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckboy

i voted for no cos this new version imo is more useful. the old one was useless because necros have soul reaping which gave energy anyways, and as for dervish order builds, don't they get energy/hp from ending enchantments which orders spam all the time? why the need for more energy spells when ur getting free energy anyways. like majikmajikmajik said: orders has'nt died, u've just got to go back to older builds that worked just as good before.

This version is definitely good, but buffing minions and Discord was completely unnecessary. Masochism was a good non-elite alternative that helped fuel orders, which can get costly even with Soul Reaping. The Dervish version took a hit as well, with a minor recharge hit to Dwayna's Touch and a complete overhaul of Vow of Piety that build was hit even harder.

Evasion Twenty · Aug 07, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

what was vow of piety's effect pre-nerf?

Shursh · Aug 07, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

yes, i vote to revert it.

however, you can still run Cultist's Fervor and be perfectly fine for orders.

BiP isn't a big deal either if you run a paragon secondary with the energy shouts that they have.

snaek · Aug 07, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

this is like the [order of undeath] skill mechanic change all over again lol...

as a necro, i used the old [masochism] quite a bit and while i hate to see it go, the new masochism is fun to play with. for me it can go either way, and i'll be content. however, i think this would be a better solution...

> revert [masochism]
> give the "new masochism" effect to the pve-skill [signet of corruption]

the reason for this is that human mm's are a dying breed. i enjoyed it heavily pre-nerfs, and still do enjoy it. there is no doubt that mm's are already powerful enough, however they have been allocated as a hero task. [signet of corruption] is pretty useless, so lets let it see more use and have human mm's have a bit more fun, while hero mm's will be unchanged.

Racthoh · Aug 07, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evasion Twenty

what was vow of piety's effect pre-nerf?

For 20 seconds, whenever you lose an enchantment, 1 ally in the area is healed for 5...41 Health.

And it was an enchantment, not a stance, providing nice synergy with Arcane Zeal, Mystic Healing, and of course Order of Pain/Dark Fury. While I'd love to see that skill reverted allowing a secondary class to outperform a primary has lead to issues in the past. Reverting Masochism, or changing some skill to function as it did, would be a good way to solidify the necromancer as the better class for Order usage.

Keira Nightgale · Aug 07, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

For 20 seconds, whenever you lose an enchantment, 1 ally in the area is healed for 5...41 Health.

And it was an enchantment, not a stance, providing nice synergy with Arcane Zeal, Mystic Healing, and of course Order of Pain/Dark Fury. While I'd love to see that skill reverted allowing a secondary class to outperform a primary has lead to issues in the past. Reverting Masochism, or changing some skill to function as it did, would be a good way to solidify the necromancer as the better class for Order usage.

They basically boosted discordway while nerfing the underplayed physicalway. Sigh to consider that in the previous update notes they said "we want to make buffing a single character more fun" .

Killamus · Aug 07, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Eh, actually, it's not that much of a buff. That 3% sac does quite a bit, my heroes are killing a lot faster but they're having trouble staying alive, in places that they should be getting little-no damage. It'd be great on a human necro, but heroes that redline and are always casting, it's not worth the +2 death and SR.